Moparts Tech Archive

Fuel System

440 6-pack STREET PERFORMANCE ...CARB & TIMING TIPS

billyc

hi hemi allen and ALL the 440, and 6-pack guys ......
....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhya gotta luv these 6pack carbs ,,,,,,hemiallen ,
please look up my prior posts that i sent you , and follow the step by step set-up....briefly once again;

STREET PERFORMANCE CARB SETUP FOR 6-PACKS
TIMING SETUP FOR ALL 440'S,WEDGES, AND
STREET HEMI'S
enhanced version 7-15-2001, even more info

NOTE: You must have a good running , good compression motor , and it must run at reasonably cool temp's in the heat of summer(160-190maxdegs,i would say)otherwise you will negate a lot of these settings ,
especially the boosted spark timing , and maybe not be able to use any of them at all...u will need good gas octane as well / or octane booster..your trial and error is the final determining factor...there are no guarantee's here , but no fiction either

6 PACK CARBS HOLLEY
1970-71 DODGE PLYM 440 MOTOR
R 4144 CENTER R 4365 F&R
or equivalent 2300 series 2-bbl's

F and R carbs; remove the carbs DO A NORMAL RE-BUILD , make sure u use holley parts , and specifically chk the needle and seats for perfect working order , and/or then chk to make sure the base to main body screws on the bottom are tight , and that the gasket is not ripped or torn ; chk for flushness , and that nothing is warped ,; do the same where the float bowl attaches and screws to the main body ; blow everything out , CLEAN , WITH CARBURETOR CLEANER , RE-clean again ...and blow out w/ COMPRESSED AIR ; MAKE SURE THAT THE IDLE AIR PASSAGES ARE CLEAN AND OPEN , & blow clean with air again (2 lil holes on both sides of the main body , inside the venturi on the top looking down at the main body , where the lil' clusters are ) IMPORTANT:turn-in the idle screws all the way seated; back out 1/8 to 1/4 turn ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM, maybe in your case only 1/8th of a turn OR in a dire instance, and only if you know what you are doing , open up the lil' holes in the throttle blades , by .005 maximum ...either or both of the above settings will allow the ctr carb adj. screws to be much more responsive to idle settings ( turning out is richer - in is leaner) ; seal up w wht or blk dumb-dumb, push that stuff on top of , and around , the screw heads , so as not to leak vacuum through the threads(the threads could be worn, and usually are )
buy urself the holley quick change vacuum secondary pod changeover kits , once all the above is done , and YOU know nothing , as in absolutely nothing , no leaks no blockages ,
is wrong with the outter carbs ....then u can readily remove the springs WITHOUT FRIGGING AROUND WITH THE CARBS ; DONT rip the lil' rubber diaphragms , be careful screwing down the covers ....keep changing the springs , until the transistion to the 6-bbl has no bog...may be time consuming , and tedious , but u need to do that...different color springs have diifferent opening rates......follow the instructions , they'll tell you which spring is which ......go slowly and take ur time ....these holleys are a snap to work on , once they are set-up right , all they will need is some tweaking , and then u are done ....they are identical to the back 1/2 of a holley vac seconday 4-bbl , so eveything that is written here is also applicable to a holley vac secondary 4-bbl. too ....very , very simple to some , difficult to others ; get ur mindset going so as to get it done right , and YOU WILL SUCCEED...get a holley carb tips book , or an old MP tuning book (maybe early 90's , or maybe even the newer ones have that info too !!), as they both tell all about the 6-pack carbs , and their setup in the rear of the book ...work on them , and u'll get the picture after a while ...they are NOT hard at all
NEXT , THEN .....u probably already installed the metering plates on the F and R carbs , from that ole track trick kit u have from MP, and i have one too !!!!...thats ok , and is a good thing OR
of u didnt thats ok too , use the old metering plates.....
THEN , ...make sure u have nice cold , new fresh plugs in the car...and........
new or newer , MP cap and rotor , or better yet , Echlin or Accel , tan bakelite cap and rotor...available at speed shops , and the echlin are at NAPA stores ...DO USE the tan accel bakelite caps and rotors , they are the best; then set-up as follows , w/ MP elec
ignition , set at .040 gap, or MSD ignition , set at .045-050 gap for the street .....always plug for coldness , or put in the coldest plug you can until the mtr fouls them out , and then go one step hotter ; if they dont foul out , BINGO , ya got the right one's ......... like ngk's (chk the plug number at martel racing.com )or autolite #74 or #84's ; watch ur fresh plug readings closely after 100, 200
miles of driving , and watch for pinging.....whtish plugs are LEAN , BLKISH plugs mean RICH...ideally they should be chocolate brn.....
ALWAYS , use new ignition wires whenever possible , 8-9mm , or just MP wires work just fine ; i am using blk accel 9mm wires in my car (blk for the mopar car shows )
ALWAYS , use MP coils , or MSD Blaster coils , but a stock coil is ok too, but not as good performance wise ......when choosing a coil in combination with MP ignition boxes , use the CORRECT BALLAST RESiSTOR , not just what u wanna use ....the coil+box combo require specific ballasts , so follow the guide , or call mp tech line , or get a mp tuning book , it will tell all ...and there IS A DIFFERENCE

NOTE: after all of the above , if u ping badly , or if the plugs are whtish , with the track metering plates or the stock plates , that means your mtr is octane sensitive and/or not rich enough in the carburetors, THEN U MUST buy the jetted metering plates from quick-fuel technology ,or make up your own , so as to modify the jetting richer, ...its easier, than going out and buying separate oriface plates for each opening size change that u may do , that would be , cost prohibitive ; the jetting plates is the hot set-up, and the only way to go .. AND THATS A STORY FOR ANOTHER DAY .........NOTE........
the MP ole tuning books have the trick/performance for street usage ,
metering plate sizes , listed in thousanths of an inch , ..these are the sizes that they tested , and R and D'ed in their performance tests , on 6-pack rr's and challengers in the 70's and 80's , and that have been proven to work in their street & drag tests ; you can then convert those oriface opening sizes to the current holley jet size # numbers , ......EZ to do , just get a holley catalog , go to the jet section , and cross over an oriface size to a jet number , ie, .080 size = a #79 holley jet , or whatever ...then, install those appropriate jets in the new quick-fuel technolgy metering plates for your F and R carbs , and use them as a baseline .....i do have a stage one and an even richer stage two staggered jetting size chart , for those that may want it ...THEY DO WORK AND WORK WELL, DIFFERENCE BEING , GAS BACK THEN WAS MUCH DIFFERENT THAN GASOLINE IS NOW , especially in the northeast , SO YOU MAY HAVE TO GO EVEN RICHER YET for optimum performance ....
remember ...any time u add or do performance enhancements , ie, larger 2 1/2'' exhaust , headers , better ignition , larger cam , etc, etc , you should consider richening up ur 4-bbl , or 6-pack carbs ...u may even probably get better gas mileage because you made it more efficient , and gave it more power

IMPORTANT
if u suspect , seem to have , OR DO HAVE ANY TYPE OF CARB OR MTR PROBLEM , whtish plugs , leaness , or pinging , detonation
u need to address that situation right away , and dont continually drive the car ; YOU AT THAT POINT HAVE 2 CHOICES ......stop any performance enhancements , revert everything back to stock , OR diagnose by trial and error to locate the problem and/or take the jetting to another level with the quick-fuel metering plates , or make your own plates ...YOU CANT AND SHOULD NOT CONTINUALLY DRIVE A PINGING 440 OR MOPAR ENGINE , or any engine for that matter , AS U MAY , AND PROBABLY WILL CAUSE INTERNAL
ENGINE DAMAGE

next , a hvy squirt or rich load of gas from f and r carbs is normal

CTR CARB...put in a 5.5 or a 6.5 pwr valve ; u dont need a 3.5, it may be tooooo long a transistion time before the carb gets enrichened , and goes into the power stage ;
go up on the jet from the factory #62-63 , to a #66-#67-#68 or even a #69 or #70...i'm using a number 66 in my car , but may go to a 68
OFF THE LINE PERFORMANCE ON 440'S, w auto trans. , may require a change from a factory #31 squirter , to a #35 , not any bigger for a street motor is needed ....u'll see a difference
idle air bleeds in the metering blocks , and in the main body are fine , dont make any bigger, unless u have a big , big cam ,,,i think they are .037 stock , which are fine in most usages; quick fuel tech plates for the F and R carbs have , i think , removable or adjustable air bleeds if u need to use them ...DO chk for warpage , and broken gaskets as well , clean w gumout or carb cleaner , and blow out everything w compressed air; do the same thing to the main metering block in the ctr carb , where the powr valve screws into ...get that vacuum up to 12-14'' or higher ...methodically and slowly , go back and forth , and back and forth , on those adjustment screws until u get the highest reading on each screw on a vacuum gauge ; do it over and over , and u'll get the knack of it, i did ; make sure u have the lil' round cork gaskets threaded onto the idle screws , or an equivalent o ring , real real small...when screwing in and out , the gasket or o ring will prevent vacuum from escaping ; in addition to that , i dumb -dumb my screw head to the float bowl
, once the setting is achieved , so as to prevent any vacuum leaks thru the threads , and believe me , they do leak vacuum
.....(i know , that motor gets hot), but keep adjusting until you get that sweet setting of hi vacuum , and
then turn the screw in by 1/4 turn ....i have almost the same cam as you , and i'm getting almost 14-16''in neutral , and 11-13'' in drive ; a lil' jumping on the vacuum gauge is ok, i get the same jumping , if it were to vary dramatically , then i would say that you have a problem, but 1/2 to 1''to 1 1/2'' i would say is ok , for a loopy cam .....
A LITTLE TRICK; if you want to get the vacuum higher , AND get max power from the 383-426W or hemi, and 440 motor on the street ..........
make sure ur timing is set properly , and you must have hi enough octane to stop pinging and/or use blk cans of 104+ octane booster , the red can sux, but that is optional , the important thing is the timing setting ....as follows , otherwise u wont get that higher vacuum reading , and may get less performance ; the initial timing IS RELATIVE to the vacuum reading on any motor ...... look at my prior posts for setting up a MP distr, and / or limit the total advance for the street to 36-38 degs , depending on your octane out in the west coast ...any MP elec distr. , must BE LIMITED, and modded to stop at 36-38degs , it wont do it on its own ; MP distr's have approx 25 added degs of crankshaft advance built in as a centrifugal advance , and when u combine that to an initial of say.., 20...u'll have 20 initial + 25 built in , = equaling 45 degs total , which is way toooo much , and thats why u MUST mod and limit the total adavance ; there is no way around that ....set the initial at 16-20 degs , depending on where u want it , but when u do that , member' , u must limit and stop the total at the above setting , and i cannot express enough upon everyone the importantcy of that one point; there are magazine articles on how to do this , or take it to a distr. shop and have them put it on a distr. machine and set it up , or do it urself , as per one of my prior posts(very long & am not gonna post it here again) OR buy a MSD timing controller/computer , like i did ........but very expensive
....at 16-20 degs initial , YOU should get somewhere between 12-14'' or more even ,
of vacuum at idle , in neutral, @ 800-950rpm's ...i do , and you should too.....just peak out , and re-peak those 2 ctr carb idle screws .......mine is set initial at 18degs, and the total stops at 37 degs .....u'll have lottsa bottom end , and the vacuum secondary tranistion will knock ur sox off when they open..... i know mine does ; just watch for pinging ...get some good gas , real good gas , or add some blk cans of 104+, or even some Xylene , rocket fuel, as its called , if you dare , Lololololol, we're playing with that too now (do a search , and chk for prior posts on xylene)....with the above carb setups , and metering plate mod's , and timing adjustments , i picked up 4-5mpg on my 6-pack challeneger
......happy moparing & good luck..........

------------------
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T , FE5 red exterior, wht vinyl roof & wht side stripes , built at dodge LA Calif plant 9/69 , factory 'Ucode' 4-bbl a/c car , now 440 6-pack w/ factory-air (the way it should have been), 727 , all the 6-pack goodies , incl. 28-3200 hi stall converter, 3.55 sure grip...BluePrinted stock 9.5-1 440, former Muscle Car Review magazine car ; chassis , drivetrain & interior restified and restored to its mopar originality
( still ongoing , as always ! ! ! )...geeez, i member' these cars when i was a kid , Lolol

OOOPS SORRY , forgot to mention , a good performance boost is the tork-converter; if ya got a performance cam , or just want some more giddy-up and go power , and ur tranny is in real good shape or new , and shifts good and quick ...add one or even two back-to-back, trans. coolers or the equivalent , and a deep mopar pan , and a 3000rpm stall converter on a 383 or 440 ....IT'LL cool down the fluid dramatically, plus the converter WILL WAKE THE MOTOR RIGHT UP , AND GIVE U NECK SNAPPING off the line ACCELERATION on the street ....i use 2 stacked B&M coolers hidden in the drvrs wheel well, up high, mntd behind the headlite bckt, 5/16''metal&rubber lines, & radiator by-pass, and an 11'' 28-3200 6-pack/street hemi converter; but will be changing to the same stall by either B&M , or Hughes

----- UPDATED AS OF 8 – 26 – 2001 -----
no size changes , just some testing updates
6 PACK CARBS FOR 440's.....METERING
PLATE MOD'S

OK , HERE'S THE METERING PLATE
STORY & ALL THE INFO
old chry track/trick plates , designed
by chry, built by holley , as follows ,
F&R carbs , for Holley R4365 (NEW #’s
for 69+70 carbs)
or older Holley 2300 series 2-bbl
equivalents
Originally marked as MP kit # 4007671
(kit originally had the plates for the 71’carbs, and plates for the 69+70’carbs, gaskets for both sets of year carbs, 2 vacuum diaphragms for the secondaries, and a set of diff rate springs)

NOTE’ TECHNICAL INFO IS THE SAME ON THE 69-70-71 YR. CARBS , ALTHOUGH THE PARTS & GASKETS ARE DIFFERENT AS NOTED BELOW
for 69-70-71 440 6-pack motors
metering plate orifice opening sizes
on the ole trick/track plates

choke side throttle side

front carb
#34plate .089 .089
rear carb
#35plate .086 .093
THESE ARE THE 'HOT' ORIFICE SIZE OPENINGS THAT CHRY & HOLLEY SOLD IN THEIR TRICK KITS , JUST CHANGE EM' OVER TO JET NUMBERS , AND PUT EM' IN YOUR QUICK FUEL
TECHNOLOGIES NEW STYLE JETTED METERING PLATES , OR YOUR HOME STYLE plates
The track plates or trick plates , that came in the chry/holley trick kits #4007671 are in fact already the same as the above sizes shown ....they are no longer made , supposedly, in kit form , but may be available separately , numbers shown below …………………..and also at some point in time , in the late 70's and 80's, Holley went to these orifice size openings in their standard production runs of REPLACEMENT F & R carbs ,and i researched this as fact by opening up a bunch of carbs over the years ,and found these hot plates in them, (CALLED THE #34 and the #35 plates) yet cant confirm this with holley or chry ;the good plates, should have on the face , a raised marking on each as follows;
FRT CARB BOLDLY MARKED 34 on the face
of the metering plate
Holley # 34R-6153-34 69-70
carbs only,or R-4365

REAR CARB BOLDLY MARKED 35 on the face of
the metering plate
Holley # 34R-6153-35 69-70
carbs only, or R-4365
NOTE THESE PLATES ARE FOR 69-70 CARBS ONLY , Holley #R-4365 carbs, OR THE EXACT MATCH.

CONFIRM YOUR CARB PART NUMBER BEFORE ORDERING PLATES (71’series carbs require different style plates & gaskets)
...these will in fact be the HOT-SETUP in plates .....these are obviously in orifice opening hole sizes , rather than jets sizes
or numbers ; OE stock plates on both carbs from the factory were #35 plates, yes , that’s correct !!!, both are #35………….
YOU CAN IF YOU CHOOSE, cross over whatever plates numbers u already have (rather than chasing down these trick plates, which are impossible to find) just by calling holley , or looking in an older holley catalog (and you may be able to order the plates alone , w/o the kit) it will show you by plate number what the orifice opening size is on the choke/diaphrm side and the throttle side as well ...very EZ to do ... but…………………………there are the sizes anyway , and the Holley part#’s if needed ...... if you wanna use the new jetted plates with the above sizes, as a prelim to the stage 1 and stage 2 transitions , you would need to convert , change over , the sizes shown in thousandths , to jet numbers from the holley catalog......………………………..
Now , here is what I call my Stage 1 jetting , and Stage 2 jetting tips for 440 6 pack motors (all years), which would apply to all motors w up to approx 10.8-1 comp ratio; i followed the above chrysler / MP specs , and staggering , exactly as shown above , .......PLUS.....added more richness by a 4-5% size increase , using jets on stage 1 , and then also added more richness , another 4-5% on stage 2 ...and this is for the quick fuel technology metering plates , a jetted metering plate , or for hme designed jetted plates
CTR , F AND R carbs 440 6-pack
1969-1970
HOLLEY R4365 OR EQUIV OUTTER CARBS
HOLLEY R4144 OR EQUIV CTR CARB
1971 6-pack carbs use different carb numbers, because of float bowl parts & gasket differences; they still are Holley 2300 series carbs , & all the tech info herein still is applicable
Holley 2300 SERIES 2-bbls jetting matches almost identical the MP track/street metering plates + 4-5% increase added , that chrysler-MP and/or Holley no longer makes from the late 80's , Early 90's ...these jetting tips are staggered just like the originals were from chry, and are for exh manifold cars , no headers , no heat block-off on the intake aircleaner on and not removed ...although they probably CAN be used on most all cars even w/ or without headers as a baseline .
(THE ABOVE are the original metering plates, in their original orifice opening sizes as shown for reference; the orifice size is the same regardless of whether it’s a 69-70-or 71 carb, although some of the interior float bowl pieces, gaskets, and metering plates on a 71’ are different
than on the earlier 69+70 carbs; consult before you buy

STAGE 1
ADDED 4-5% richness from trick plate
Sizes as shown above

CHOKE SIDE THROTTLE SIDE

FRONT CARB

.093 .093
or #80 jet or #80 jet

REAR CARB
.091 .099 or#79 jet or #84 jet

CTR CARB
R4144 holley
WENT FROM #62 OR 63 JET, to #66JET , .066
Original metering body # 34R-6020A or
#1034-6020 OE Stock jet size was #62 in
calif and #63 in the rest of the USA

STAGE 2 JETTING
another 4-5 % added to the above stage 1
sizes

CHOKE SIDE THROTTLE SIDE

FRONT CARB
.099 .099
or #84 jet or #84 jet

REAR CARB
.094 .101 or #83 jet or #86 jet

CTR CARB
WENT FROM #66 ABOVE in stage 1, TO ,
#67JET , .067
Tech info same as above, stage 1 ctr carb

...Holley says the jetting was staggered due to intake manifold inconsistantcies that chrysler found on dynoing ,and during drag tests , and corrected by jet staggering ...supposedly, but who
knows for sure !!!!…but the staggering does work well…….have been using the staggering for over 4 yrs now
i have personally used , in fact , the original trick metering plates , which worked good , no problems ; then , the initial trick plate sizes converted over to jets , & put into a jetting metering plate , which also worked good , as obviously they
were the same sizes as the trick plate; and lastly, the stage 1 jetted plate which worked better yet....and finally the stage
2 jetting plate which works to date the best for the street……..i am also using cold NGK SPARK PLUGS, AS FOLLOWS; STOCK #2746 R5670-6……..plugs are reading perfectly as of 8-26-2001 , GAPPED AT .045 W/MSD 6T, AND at .040 WHEN USING CHRY ORANGE OR CHROME BOXES………………………………..in the dead 95-98deg heat i might add
...all the above have been r&d'ed by me , and work fine ...no problems whatsoever for street perf.,in idle characteristics ,
performance , or over richness……..and as of this date 8/26/2001, I HAVE FOUND THE MSD
IS FAR SUPERIOR TO THE CHRY / MP BOXES UNDER 3000 RPM’S WHEN IT FIRES THE PLUGS W/ A DOUBLE PULSE UNTIL 3000RPM’S, then it reverts back to a single pulse ignition system
(the MSD is excellent for rich loads
such as the stage 1 & stage 2 jetting,
preventing the plugs from even wanting
to foul at low or idle rpm… I suspect
the chry/MP boxes would not fire the
load of gas above , but I don’t know
that for fact)

ACTUAL TESTING & DRIVING

I AM PRESENTLY USING AS OF, AND SINCE 7/2001 ,STAGE 2 JETTING , BECAUSE OF POOR PUMP OCTANE IN THE NORTHEAST , AND
AM TRYING TO OFFSET OCTANE SENSITIVITY IN THE MOTOR BY RICHENING THE CARBS , THERBY GAINING MORE POWER , WITHOUT ANY PINGING , AND GAINING THIS POWER W/O GOING TO OCTANE BOOSTER , ON A ROUTINE BASIS ; …………………..AND IT WORKS ……EVEN IN THE HEAT ........
AS OF 8/25-2001, spark plug readings on my blueprinted stock 440 mtr, approx 10k miles since done ,.030 overbore ,9.8-1 final COMP ratio, basically stock heads w Mp #993 CAM 280deg duration , and 3.55 sure-grip ,a set-up/ blueprinted MP distr w/ MSD 6T , running 38deg’s total , & 20deg’s initial on the street…W/O OCTANE BOOSTER !!!
PLUGS ARE READING A NICE CHOCOLATE BROWN , LIKE NESTLE'S QUIK WHICH IS WHAT THEY SHOULD BE ....W/ BLK CANS 104+ OCTANE BOOSTER, OR RACE FUEL , THIS COMBO SHOULD BE AN EVEN BETTER PERFORMER , ESPECIALLY WITH HEADERS , AND LARGER EXHAUST WHICH I DO HAVE , 2 ½ INCH , BUT NO HEADERS
I'LL BE WATCHING PLUG READINGS , AND ANY FOULING PROBLEMS, WHILE USING THE COLD NGK PLUGS WHICH SEEM TO BE THE BEST
PLUGS TO DATE THAT I HAVE USED FOR THE 440 MTR. AGAIN , the ngk plug number is stock#2746 R5670-6
I HAVE GAINED WHAT SEEMS TO BE MORE POWER ON 93 OCTANE PUMP GAS ALONE( MOBIL PREM)ESPECIALLY IN MID-RANGE ,2000-4000RPM'S ....no pinging at all .........I DONT USE SUNOCO ANYMORE BECAUSE OF HI OXYGENATION FORMULAS AROUND HERE.......SO FAR, I’M EXPERIENCING NO POWER
LOSS, NO PLUG FOULING , AND AN INCREASE IN GAS MILEAGE OF FROM 4-6 MPG W/ STAGE 2 JETTING ....AM STILL
R & Ding THIS COMBO ....BUT ITS WORKING WELL ON THE STREET , REAL WELL..was having lifter / cylinder pressure problems causing pinging at times when at 170-180 degs of water temp, which IS NOW CORRECTED , when i removed the rhoades lifters and installed 16 MP hi-perf hydraulic lifters ,and 16 new melling pushrods, re-torked the rocker arms , non-adj MP HD stamped rockers for now anyway, and re-torked the head gaskets …………….. REAL SOON , am going to a 4 row or large tube 3 row radiator , for even more cooling (W/the mopar pentastar stamped upper&lower tanks) when thats done , i'll be doing more testing , and thrashing .......MEMBER', the cooler the motor runs the denser the gas mixture, and the more power the mtr will make , and the less chance u'll have at pinging the motor, especially at higher than stock timing settings …
ALSO ..the above jet settings will effectively get even richer yet when the weather starts cooling down , and the air becomes cooler outside . AND , Cooler air is coming

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