Moparts Tech Archive
Body And Paint
Paint, Painting, Painted Q ?'s
Wet sand tips on Acrylic EnamelMonGoo$e
Moparts Member
Posts: 1943
From: New Salisbury, Indiana, USA
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 05-24-2002 11:51 PM
almost have the whole Car painted, it's not perfect, but it's a driver, and still looks clean. what I'd like to know is about wetsanding the red paint after I finish? i have very very slight orange peel, almost perfect as far as finish..but has only a normal shine, dunno if that can be helped or not...but would wetsanding help? and if so, what steps and grits should I use? also what polish and where can I get it?
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sitkadog
Moparts Member
Posts: 191
From: Oregon
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 05-25-2002 12:48 AM
I think wetsanding and buffing will definately help.
Hopefully you have at least 3 and preferrably 4 coats of paint down. If you have less I wouldn't bother.
With minimal orange peal I will cut it with 1000 or 1200 grit until all of the peal is gone.
To buff I like Cargroom medium rubbing compound and a variable speed buffer set at about 1000 to 1400 rpm.
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lbk1956
Moparts Member
Posts: 221
From: orlando, fl. usa
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 05-25-2002 02:03 PM
sikadog is giving good advice . im doing the same thing now. im done with the 1000 grit but im going on to 1500 then 2000 before i buff withn the compound. have fun.
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Fairly Strange
Moparts Member
Posts: 2320
From: Gardendale, AL.USA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-25-2002 02:36 PM
Good advice as long as its' not metalic......if it is, DON"T DO IT!!!!
I made that mistake and had to repaint! The metalic changes looks through layers and sanding will expose "misalighned" metalic.
By the way....small orange peel is normal with acrylics. Only pros MIGHT shoot one in acrylic and avoid it!
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rudy anzellotti
Moparts Member
Posts: 303
From: sandy hook ct usa
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-25-2002 02:45 PM
mongoos do what ibk1956 said finish off with 2000 grit if you try buffing a 1000 or 1200 scratch it will take forever, but a 2000 scratch is nice for buffing.
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Paint and body men , I need to ask a question
polar convert
Moparts Member
Posts: 439
From: Janesville WI USA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-25-2002 11:10 PM
My neighbor is repainting my car and I dont think that he is planing on using primer. The car is covered 75% of original paint, it seems that he is just roughing up the old and planing to shoot over top of it. The jams I sanded down to bare metal so they will have to be primered, but what about the larger areas like the hood and fenders? For a proper repaint should evrything be reprimered then shot in color or can you spray over old paint and get a good finish. Help I never done this before.
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fm3cuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 379
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 05-25-2002 11:12 PM
you should atleast put a good sealer on it .
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beepbeep
Moparts Member
Posts: 4039
From: Orange, CA. USA
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 05-25-2002 11:16 PM
I would ask your question here http://www.autobodystore.com/ great info on the BBS.
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dartcuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 157
From: Cottage Grove, Oregon
Registered: Dec 2001
posted 05-25-2002 11:16 PM
It will need to be primed. Also if you took it to bare metal you will need to use a epoxy primer, or some other type of itching primer. When ever I paint I always use a primer, then sealer, then the paint. Hope this helps, and I'm sure there will me more to answer that can help you more than i can. Good luck.
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d100
Moparts Member
Posts: 907
From: pittsburg, ks.
Registered: Apr 2002
posted 05-25-2002 11:22 PM
this is what i do for a living, if you are not going to bare metal the car i would at least sand the car with some 80-180 on a DA, then use a good urethane primer over it. if you paint directly over the old finish ,regardless of how well its sanded, you will have problems show up in a few months time.
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MonGoo$e
Moparts Member
Posts: 1943
From: New Salisbury, Indiana, USA
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 05-25-2002 11:38 PM
someone explain what a sealer is, I always hear the name, but never any specifics like paints and primers i hear about, i always thought you just use primer, then paint...what, more stuff to buy? haha
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d100
Moparts Member
Posts: 907
From: pittsburg, ks.
Registered: Apr 2002
posted 05-25-2002 11:48 PM
i have never really benefitted from using a sealer, but then again i only use urethane primers. if this means anything DuPont quit making sealers, with todays primers there is really no need for a sealer in fact the sealers DuPont used to make were not even recommended with base coat clear coat.
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dartcuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 157
From: Cottage Grove, Oregon
Registered: Dec 2001
posted 05-26-2002 10:03 AM
I have always had good luck with sealers, but then i have always used a lauqer primer. Once i didn't use a sealer and had primer bleed through.
This time on my Dart I am using a epoxy primer, so you are saying that I won't need the sealer?
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vtpkrat2
New Member
Posts: 78
From: Washington,Vermont U.S.A
Registered: Apr 2002
posted 05-26-2002 10:41 AM
As usual there are different answers and opinions to the same question.What is the proper procedure?It depends from situation to situation.In your case of an OVERALL paint job,the best and most accepted and long lived method is sand ,prime and seal,then paint.Also with some of todays urethane [w/catalyst hardeners] type primers it is almost optional if a person goes the extra expense of a sealer,when the primer is doing the same job.BUT,and this is the gray area,you DO NOT always prime and seal as any bodyman with collision experiance will tell you.For example,if you are replacing a damaged fender you would have to blend your paint into adjacent panels as in the hood and door.Your repair area [fender] is repaired,primed,possibly sealed[only if you don't use a catylized primer],then painted,AND blended into properly sanded or scuffed, existing unprimed areas[hood,door] for a paint match.So ,in that scenario you are painting over sometimes very large ares of unprimed but properly prepared areas and trust me;the paint does not fall off. In your neighbors case,for his own use,he'll have probably an acceptible job.Will it last as long as a primed etc.etc.job;probably not.Hope this helps.Gary
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d100
Moparts Member
Posts: 907
From: pittsburg, ks.
Registered: Apr 2002
posted 05-26-2002 12:52 PM
if i were gonna use laquer primer i would use a sealer, but spend the extra money on a good urethanne primer.
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Metal Paint Finishes
dulcich
Moparts Reader
Reged: 01/19/03
Posts: 9
From the thread on LCA mods, there were a couple of questions on paint finishes. I figure I'd put the response in a new post, so that members who have no interst in control arms, but may like some paint info can find it here.
Here's something to think about before buying a truckload of overpriced "metal" finishes for various effects. If you want to make your own, and I don't care if you are after a dark bare cast iron color, a medium forged steel, or a light bare stamped steel color, you basically need just two toners in single stage urethane or acrylic enamel:
Coarse Aluminum and Black.
I get the coarse aluminum tinting-base, which are what the paint shop uses to mix colors. The tinting-base isn't quite a shiny as mixed paint, and covers really well, since it has way more solids than regular paint mix, which contains more clear resins. Make sure to ask the paint tech if the paint needs to have a -drier- added, and tell him you will use it to spray parts. To keep the gloss down, avoid heavy wet coats, and use a faster reducer than you normally would, I typically use "fast" reducer.
Single-stage Urethane or Acrylic Enamel (With hardener!!!) are both very good. Use an accelerator, especially in the urethane, otherwise it takes a long time to dry.
You will find the black is pretty strong, it will darken the alum pnt to look a bright steel color with only a small splash of black. Add more black, and it will look like a darker forged steel part. More black and you have a perfect cast iron gray. A drop or two of blue can also be added (go easy) for a slightly different cold blue steel look; it's kind of fun to experiment.
I use a Harbor Freight tools touch up gun, they give them away for about $10, and they work great! I've used them for years, and for this purpose you can't do better with a more expensive gun. Anyone who can use a spray bomb can shoot with one of these. Catalyze urethane or Acry enamel is way tougher than any of the spray bomb stuff, and really lasts and cleans up well. I shoot engines with the same types of paints as well, but get it mixed to the specific formula.
Paint car one piece at a time???
FishNmoparZ
Moparts Member
Posts: 498
From: Suburb of Chicago,Illinois,USA
Registered: Dec 2001
Anyone ever paint their car a little at a time.....both doors removed from car, maybe just the hood, then the front fenders, paint the shell, etc... and then reassemble it and have a decent enough match? I was thinking of painting my car black (centari) while in pieces because of space constraints.
Anyone ?
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carl
Moparts
Posts: 9422
From: Ohio
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 01-17-2003 06:25 PM
The bad thing about that is even thou the paint will probably be coming from the same can of paint.
You can end of with 2 or 3 shades of the same color.
esp if the paint has metalic in it.
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doctor mopar
Moparts Member
Posts: 1984
From: slidell,la
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 01-17-2003 06:27 PM
On a solid color, especially a very basic color, it can work well, and has for me. I would not consider it for a metallic .
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d100
Moparts Member
Posts: 1282
From: pittsburg, ks.
Registered: Apr 2002
posted 01-17-2003 06:28 PM
thats the only way i do one that i am restoring. the only ones i paint whole are cars that are running and driving cars that just need fresh paint, no jambs or anything. i have never had a problem with paint matching, i just make sure that i do each piece the exact same way. i did a plum crazy 71 bee in pieces and everything was a perfect match and thats the hardest mopar color to do.
let me clarify, i paint the rolling shell first, then the doors, hood, decklid, fenders, and other small misc. pieces. i wouldnt try to paint a roof then move on to the quarters, tou dont really have a place to break it. and as far as painting one in pieces and one all together ther is no comparison in the quality of the job. go look at john balow, roger gibson, and others websites and you will see this is how they do it as well.
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jeff8948
New Member
Posts: 54
From: princeton n.c. usa
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 01-17-2003 06:32 PM
painting a car one piece at a time is the only way to go if you want a top quality job.i have had cars done both ways and the quality of a piece by piece car is head and shoulders above that of a one shot job.i currently have a 71 cuda in the resto shop.it takes a little getting used to seeing parts of your car sitting in a corner looking like new and seeing other parts of your car getting torched.
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FrankO
New Member
Posts: 88
From: Brodheadsville,Pa.,U.S.A.
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 01-17-2003 06:37 PM
I'm in the middle of a piece meal paint job first I did the roof and trunk, then the left quarter and door. It all matches so far. iTS A 71 CHARGER a very big car and painting it this way is a lot easier than the 72 charger I did in one shot.The paint is PPG'S OMI paint base coat clear coat and tha color is Crazy Plum.
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Bomber
Moparts Member
Posts: 555
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 01-17-2003 07:47 PM
The answers so far have been a suprise to me. I am not a body man(in the process of teaching myself)but I have seen more than a couple cars that are different shades once put together. The guy who painted my Challenger likes to take them apart, but I think I'll stick to shooting it together. I don't see myself being able to duplication the conditions over a long period of time.
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71Cuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 2654
From: Circleville, Ohio, US
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 01-18-2003 04:01 AM
Keep in mind paint will fluctuate in color with weather...etc......
When I did my Cuda I saved paint and shot the engine compartment in warmer weather.....it is different......not by much BUT...I would not want the exterior that way.
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4x4 440
Moparts Member
Posts: 1409
From: Glenmoore,PA,US
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 01-18-2003 09:24 AM
That is the way I am doing my Ramcharger. I had the hood, fenders, cowl and front valance painted, inside and outside. The liftgate and tailgate are painted now. Prepping the top for paint next week along with the inner front fenders. After the whole truck is painted I'll see if the color matches if not a quick shot of the whole truck then clear coat. The color is A2 silver metallic.
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gerard
Moparts Member
Posts: 103
From: bloomington,ill
Registered: May 2002
posted 01-18-2003 09:52 AM
i painted my RR piece at a time over a 6 month period no problem. solid color R-4 red.painted 38 chevy street rod 4 times in last 25 yrs [change colors] and there is no way to paint 10 pieces together. and sometimes it took 2 yrs from one part to another. never had any trouble. PPG delstar on every thing. never base clear.
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FishNmoparZ
Moparts Member
Posts: 498
From: Suburb of Chicago,Illinois,USA
Registered: Dec 2001
posted 01-18-2003 09:57 AM
I'm kinda surprised also that it's not too uncommon to spray a car this way. Painting my car black sounds like I've got a reasonable chance at a fairly decent result. The garage that I've got is small, maybe considered a 1-1/2 car garage, and it's really difficult getting around a car, let alone trying to paint one. I had also considered, pulling the engine and trans to lighten it up, dropping the car onto some of those 4 wheel dollies, and carefully moving the car while spraying. Paint the drivers side with the car moved to the right, then moving around to the other side and pushing the car to the left (up to stops on the floor) and then painting the right side.
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SS/AA Hemi Fan
Moparts Member
Posts: 319
From:
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 01-18-2003 12:41 PM
I took all the panel's off and painted each separately,(no clear) then the whole shell. Put it all together then wet sanded the whole car and put a couple more coats of color on all, then clear. This way everything will match. It's easier to focus on 1 piece at a time while doing bodywork and making it perfect before moving on to the next panel.
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Mark
Moparts Member
Posts: 571
From: St. Peters,Missouri
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 01-19-2003 11:51 AM
I would do it in seperate piece`s, I don`t like tape lines so doing panels off an resembling really isn`t that tuff of a job, comes out alot better in my opinion. Just use the same practice for all the panels an the paint will match (air presure,undercoats,# of coats,etc..) I spray panels off the cars at work all day long an never do we have a problem with color varaince it just seems the jobs come out cleaner this way.
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4speeds4me
Moparts Member
Posts: 4273
From: Sicamous, B.C., CANADA
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 01-19-2003 01:11 PM
The 73 Satellite I did this past summer was the first one I did with any panels off the car, and here's what I learned. I don't know if I'd do each removable part separately, but it sure is nice to do the hood and trunklid off the car. Way less worry about "leaning" into the fresh paint you're putting on the rest of the car in an effort to get good coverage in the middle of the hood and stuff. I also like doing the roof a different color, just so's I can stand on the rockers to get a good reach going!
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Darvin
Moparts Member
Posts: 1178
From: Silicon Valley, CA
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 01-19-2003 07:46 PM
I've seen cars painted in sections and look great up close but driving down the road, the metallic reflects differently as though each section's metallic particles were polarized in different directions. Also, you would have to be careful in your spraying technique. Metallic particles will settle closer to the surface as the distance between the gun and the work surface increases. And metallic colors are like candy colors in that they can vary a lot in tone depending on technique. You can do it, you just need to pay attention.
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340SIX
Moparts Member
Posts: 4243
From: NEW ORLEANS,LA.
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 01-19-2003 08:02 PM
if it is a solid color it is the only way to go. That is how mine was done under carrage and engine bay, then inside and trunk inside fenders and underside hood. then the whole car with everything taped up.
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Deric Hebert
Moparts Member
Posts: 579
From: Amarillo, Texas USA
Registered: Jun 2002
posted 01-19-2003 08:20 PM
Be careful if painting with any metallic or pearl. The solids in the paint "sag" ever so slightly towards mother earth. It's a gravity thing. Make sure that you paint all the panels in the same plane as ajoining panels, i.e. hang the doors like they would be on the car, paint the hood flat, andd so on.
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mopargo
New Member
Posts: 47
From: Yakima, WA USA
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 01-19-2003 09:27 PM
I have only had one solid color paint job with doors off not turn out. That was a 68 GTO, it was a base/clear, and the paint was a light yellow, it was very transparent and took many coats to cover. When the clear was on and the doors remounted you could clearly see the difference, so we repainted the whole car, every now and then you gotta eat one. Normally this does'nt happen, I have painted British cars that have beading between body panels and have to be disassembled to paint, putting them back together without damage is part of the job, you use tape and towels and whatever you need, and yes you can use the towels to cry in if need be.
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Can you spray Clear-Coat over a Single-Step, Basecoat-Only Enamel?
71ChargerSE440CI
Moparts Member
Posts: 4480
From: Rancho Cucamonga, So. California, USA
Registered: May 2001
posted 01-19-2003 08:44 PM
Is there any problem Clear-Coating over an Acrylic Enamel Paint that was not created as a Base-Coat/Clear-Coat System?
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mopargo
New Member
Posts: 47
From: Yakima, WA USA
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 01-19-2003 09:01 PM
Yes you can apply clear over acrylic, consult paint vendor about process
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dulcich
Moparts Member
Posts: 558
From:
Registered: Jul 2001
posted 01-19-2003 09:04 PM
That's the only way it used to be done in a two stage paint job, before basecoat systems came about, chiefly to speed production. These systems of about 20-25 years ago had a wet glossy color coat go on first, and then after sufficient flash time, apply clear. Imron, Dupont Centari and others were used this way as standard practice back then.
Some guys would clear over acry lacquer, since it was fast and then use urethane or poly or acry enamel clear over it ... Imron, Centari 780 etc. It was done for the fast cure, fast coverage and hiding, and easy repair if a flaw occurs in the color coats- many of the same reasons basecoat is used today. I think that's how "basecoat" was invented.
I still prefer to paint a wet-on-wet two stage paint job over base/clear, but that's only because I'm a glutton for punishment.
If shooting over cured acrylic enamel, it has to be sanded for the clear to stick. If it's a metalic, this can cause streaking, so I would be doing it on a cured metalic finish. A cured single stage solid, no problem, wetsand with #600 and shoot it.
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Mark
Moparts Member
Posts: 571
From: St. Peters,Missouri
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 01-19-2003 11:11 PM
I know that you can with a urethane single stage paint this will provide a very deep shine when done properly like stated before (with color sanding the color coat down with either 600 or 1000 grit an apply clear coat) but with a acrylic enamel I`m not sure that you can apply a urethane clear coat over the top without some major problems. I would contact a paint jobber an see what clear coats would be compatable with your color coat.
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71ChargerSE440CI
Moparts Member
Posts: 4480
From: Rancho Cucamonga, So. California, USA
Registered: May 2001
posted 01-19-2003 11:25 PM
Is there such a thing as Enamel Clear? Would that be better for avoiding paint compatibility problems? I should be able to go with the same Brand of paint.
I already have a Gallon of Black Single-Stage Enamel, but would like the ability to Color Sand and added protection of Clear.
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dulcich
Moparts Member
Posts: 558
From:
Registered: Jul 2001
posted 01-20-2003 12:01 AM
Urethane clear is no probem over acrylic enamel;
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71ChargerSE440CI
Moparts Member
Posts: 4480
From: Rancho Cucamonga, So. California, USA
Registered: May 2001
posted 01-20-2003 03:11 AM
I may check with Drew Carriage (Automotive Paint Store) to see what might work.
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cuda440
Moparts Member
Posts: 878
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
posted 01-20-2003 04:14 AM
71ChargerSE--
what brand of paint are you using? I'm going over to Drew Carriage this week to buy paint for my Cuda, and haven't decided yet on which to buy... either Dupont chromabase or Valspar
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dulcich
Moparts Member
Posts: 558
From:
Registered: Jul 2001
posted 01-20-2003 10:47 AM
Dupont!
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