Moparts Tech Archive
Front Suspension
Handling Tips
Road racing Darthooptytank
New Member
Posts: 2
From: Santa Monica, CA L.A. Co.
Registered: Nov 2002
posted 11-05-2002 08:19 PM
Hi Everyone, I'm looking for info, pics and anyting else that might help me get my '67 Dart 2 door post, to handle like it's on rails.
I want to know if people have gone beyond poly kits and sway bars. stuff like double A-arms, adjustible coilovers, rack and pinion steering, 4 wheel disk. I can fabricate stuff myself or I was even thinking about using components from a GM to reduce cost and increase my options for brakes and stuff like that.
I've had this Dart for a few years, went from a 170 to 360 w/ all kinds of goodies,727, 8n3/4 rear. Its fast, but it can't stop and it can't turn, so if you have a moment or idea, your input is always welcome!
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MoPar_Jamie
Moparts Member
Posts: 1740
From: Sycamore, KS, USA!!
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 11-05-2002 08:31 PM
To solve your brake issues, go get yourself a set of spindles off a '73-'76 disk brake A-Body (Valiant, Dart, etc). Then, find a late 70s B-Body ('75-'79 Doba, '75-'76 Coronet, '77-'78 Monaco, and '75-'78 Fury) with the 11.75 inch Disks. Snag them as well as the caliper adapters. They will bolt up to your new spindles.
Magnum Force I think makes an upper A-arm for A-bodies thats tubular. Otherwise, grab the A-arm from the spindle donor.
While your at it, get some 15 or bigger wheels (you'll need um, 14 inchers wont clear the large disks. Then, go get some custom axles from Mozer that are for the large bolt pattern out back. Go with some 11 inch C-body drums if you want the ultimate stopping power.
For handling, you want the biggest T-bars you can get. Most suspension companies carry um. Also upgrade to Poly bushings and go with a bigger sway bar. Also put one out back with some beefier leaf springs.
I'm sure I've left out a bunch of details, but the rest can fill you in!
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70dart360
Moparts Member
Posts: 749
From: Hampton, Ga
Registered: Jun 2002
posted 11-06-2002 08:36 AM
Frame connectors will stop body twist, they helped my Dart alot! Also I upgraded to bigger torsion bars.My car was a 6 also. I got Adco sway bars front and rear also, it handles like a dream on 14 inch tires.
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Montclaire
Moparts Member
Posts: 152
From:
Registered: Oct 2002
posted 11-05-2002 10:44 PM
Get a copy of MoPar Action, and call their back issue line. You want any issues on the "Green Brick." It is an auto-cross A-body, and these articles will help a lot. They are doing features on it right now, so don't miss out.
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Doctor Dodge
New Member
Posts: 14
From: Sunnyvale, Calif USA
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 11-06-2002 03:49 AM
Here is another article on a Dart Road Racer:
http://www.slantsix.org/articles/hrm-slsick/roadrace/track-day.htm
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Prochargedmopar
Moparts Member
Posts: 1403
From: W. of FTW...Granbury, Tx
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 11-06-2002 04:27 AM
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T-bars are only $118 a set. Any rate. How about www.moparaction.com
check the tech section
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dbdartman
Moderator
Posts: 3687
From: Trenton, NJ
Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-06-2002 08:58 AM
Ahhhh... a subject I can get my teeth into!
Rev, MP has the best price on bars I've found.
Hoopty, forget the coilovers, there's way too much engineering needed & in this instance, T-bars really ARE better. www.quickor.com makes the best sway bar setup I've found for these cars, lightyears ahead of the Addco junk! All the brake upgrade info is already in the tech archives, but I'll tell you from experience that the 11.75" disc, 11" drum combo will stop an A-body scary-fast. DO replace the tie rods & adjuster tubes with C-body parts (74 Polara) they're bigger & bolt on! If you have power steering, Firm Feel Inc or Steer 'N Gear can rebuild & firm up the box (stage 3 recommended). Do NOT forget to install frame connecters! Shocks are going to be the only hard part to find. I LOVE my Konis but the A-body specific fronts are not available (B & E-body rears will bolt on) & the KYBs don't impress me at all.
For spindles, I think you'd be better off with the F J & M-body spindles, they're taller than the A-body, which raises the instant center, which results in less body roll.
One other tip, replace the K-frame. The 67 uses a unique (& VERY expensive!) idler arm mount that's just not as strong as later mounts. Your best bet would be a 72-76 K-frame, these use a shorter sway bar (shorter means a smaller/lighter bar will have the same effect) that mounts more positively, you can use easy to find later idler arms & the 73-76 use a spool type engine mount system (broker mounts don't result in the engine flopping aroud under the hood).
Your REAL dilemma will be trying to stuff tires in the tiny wheel wells. This will ultimately limit how far you can take it, but even with stock wheel wells filled to capacity, your car will handle remarkably well.
DB
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autoxcuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 1011
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 11-06-2002 11:57 AM
don't do coilovers.
FOR OCCASIONAL WEEKEND ROAD COURSE TRACK RENTAL DAYS (not worried
about any class racing rules (SCCA or otherwise):
Level 1
Good working order or rebuilt suspension components (bushings,
balljoints)
Widest and lightest rims and tires
biggest T-bar you can live with
Poly: sway bar, strut rod, leaf bushings (LCA aren't that necessary)
Moog 7103 offset bushings in stock UCA's with 3 degrees positive castor.
Adjustable rear brake proportioning valve
factory type 11.75 disk
some sort of brake air cooling diverter
aftermarket sway bars
sure grip
shocks (less costly: KYB's. More costly and better: Konis, HAL, etc)
Ok for heavy 11" rear drum
Manual 20:1 or 16:1 is fine
Attention to valve cover oil baffling
Don't start with quick ratio power steering
Level 2
Thoroughly checked suspension components
Biggest T-bars
Bigger leaf springs with improved shackles (to match front T-bars)
Front sway bar
Adjustable rear sway bar
Good aftermarket calipers
Good pads recommended with car of your weight on road course
Aftermarket rotor (if budget allows)
Brake cooling ducts
Inner circle track type axles seals to prevent rear end oil from
sloshing out ends
Cone Sure grip or Detroit Locker is best
Subframe connectors
Gusseted K-frame
Rear disks
Raised rear end vent tube with filter
Decent driver seat
Manual trans
Extra capacity oil pan with baffles/doors
maybe an accusump too
Front spoiler
FOR GENERAL STREET HANDLING:
Level 1
Level 2 above but with frame connectors and all of autocross ESP
setup added
FOR AUTOCROSS:
Go to the next SCCA autocross event they have in town. Should be able to search the web for that.
Go figure out if you ever want to run in a class competitively. Would
you like to just run it against your own personal best times or be
competitive against others cars in a class. Each class has rules. You
might want modifications on your car that puts it between classes
that will never make it competitive in each.
You would be in E-Street Prepared, Street Modified, or C-Prepared.
Each have increasing levels of modification with C-Prepared the most
of the three.
Tubular upper arms take you out of E-street and possibly Street Mod
rules. Just put on Moog 7103 offset upper bushings in the stock upper arms. Should be able to
get 3 degrees positive castor with those. Frame connectors take you
out of E-Street Prepared and maybe Street Mod.
Basic ESP build up (in order of bang for the buck):
Good working order or rebuilt suspension components (bushings,
balljoints)
Widest and lightest rims and tires
biggest T-bar you can live with
Poly: sway bar, strut rod, leaf bushings (LCA aren't that necessary)
Moog 7103 offset bushings in stock UCA's with 3 degrees positive castor.
Adjustable rear brake proportioning valve
factory 11.75 disks
aftermarket sway bars, prefer adj rear bar.
sure grip
shocks (less costly: KYB's. More costly and better: Konis, HAL, etc)
Power steering
Quick ratio power steering if it can fit with exhaust
stock rear drums don't need heavy 11" drum
All of that will still leave you in E-Street Prepared and get you
with a very good starting package.
I have 235/60/15's front and rear with 15x7 4 1/4" backspace rallies on my 68 Dart. Very close but does fit. I think you can fit 275/40/17 with 17x9 rims with 5.5 backspace on your FRONT wheels of your 67 Dart with very minor lower front wheelip trimming. Getting 275's in the rear of your Dart, WHILE keeping the car low to the ground, will be tougher
I have a webpage dedicated to Mopar Handling. Here are the links to it:
http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/specs.html
http://hometown.aol.com/pwall5/cars/adv.html
http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/tips.html
http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/brakes.html
http://members.aol.com/sccacuda/cars/CSmthTa.html
http://members.aol.com/pwall5/cars/guld.html
Steve Wall
Los Angeles
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roadrace Cuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 197
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Registered: Jun 2001
posted 11-06-2002 12:51 PM
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I was going to post, but Steve said it all!
BTW, where can I get those circle track inner axle seals? This is the first I've heard of those. While my 8 3/4 doesn't leak (anymore) it sounds like a really good upgrade.
Patrick R
68 Barracuda 340 'S'
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autoxcuda
Moparts Member
Posts: 1011
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
posted 11-06-2002 03:49 PM
Cam, the inner axles seal are common circle track part. And BTW the 9" tube are the same or very close, so that part will slide into our 8 3/4 tubes. I sent Tim Herron over to www.racecarfactory.com to get his.
Someone posted a link to this yesterday. This covers the basics on ackerman steering. The book that I scanned into my webpage does not cover ackerman. I still need to scan some graphs for the bump steer section of that book too.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/longtech.htm
Steve Wall
So Cal
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offset control arm bushings
chris ward
Moparts Member
Posts: 398
From: swift current, sk. Canada
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 05-14-2002 11:23 AM
What are the advantages of these bushings? Do I need them? I'm going to use 17 inch wheels on my barracuda so will they help it handle better?
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splatt
New Member
Posts: 72
From: Simi Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 05-14-2002 11:55 AM
The offset bushings allow more camber and caster to be set during an alignment. This can help handling quite a bit. If the front has been lowered from stock, it is common to not be able to even get stock camber settings.
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MTTwister
Moparts Member
Posts: 402
From: Butte, MT USA
Registered: Sep 2001
posted 05-14-2002 01:46 PM
I think this is autocrossers site - he x-crosses a barracudda
http://hometown.aol.com/pwall5/cars/2cudapag.html
"I suggest you read his upper A arm modification whereas you can upgrade your A body handling by installing Moog 7103 offset upper control arm bushings for increased caster. "
ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS (Barracudda?)
Caster
+ 1/2 - 3/4 minimum
+1 - 1.5 better
Camber
+1/2 - 3/4 minimum
1.25 Ideal
Hard core 2 - 2.5
Toe 1/16
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